I still like Elizabeth Edwards
Good old Elizabeth Edwards. She’s so smart and dignified.
I was listening to NPR in the car yesterday (I don’t know which show, since I tuned in while it was already in progress), and the topic was illness. One caller was talking about how she beat cancer and she just knows it was due to prayer.
Elizabeth Edwards, who was a guest on the show, articulated well how silly that is. She said it in a very non-jerky way, as is her style, but the point she made is that prayer and positive thinking certainly aren’t going to hurt anything, but it’s important to remember that there are a whole lot of very strong, positive people who can’t beat cancer. The whole attitude of crediting prayer and positive thinking for medical success 1) denigrates the lifework of medical professionals and researchers who have made great strides in cancer treatment, and 2) implies that those who die of cancer are somehow to blame for it, because they weren’t positive enough or didn’t pray hard enough.
My dad, who spends a lot more time around athletes than I do, gets annoyed for similar reasons when winners thank god for their success. Nobody ever blames a deity for failures, though it only takes like six grams of thought to come to that conclusion.
AND ANOTHER THING! There’s a billboard around here somewhere (on I-380, maybe?) that says “God Is Pro-Life.” Do people seriously only think about these things until 50% of the way through the process, then quit? If you believe that god creates life, how hard is it to come to the realization that he also creates death? A billboard saying “God Is Pro-Death” would make just as much sense.
My personal belief system is irrelevant here. I’m just talking internal consistency.
Also, Elizabeth Edwards is smart and dignified.
A thing I really don’t like is the saying, “Everything happens for a reason.” I don’t like the kind of attitude that ignores natural explanations and erases human agency and responsibility.
Also, Elizabeth Edwards is a classy lady and seems really nice. I’d hang out with her.
Hear, hear. Reading this reminds me of two things. First:
The eulogy read at Leah’s friend Melinda’s memorial service last year by her husband. As you may recall, Melinda was a promising young oncologist who rejected the notion of the “battle†or “fight†against cancer, a paradigm that automatically makes those who succumb to the disease “losers.†She seemed like a wonderful woman, and I’m sorry I didn’t know her better. Her death wasn’t a blessing any more than my daughter’s birth was a curse.
Second: I hate that billboard, too, as we’ve discussed before. I’m happy to chip in to put up the alternate billboard you propose.
Oh HELL yes, Katy. A while back I ran into this guy I knew from high school. He was talking about how he’s such close friends with this other guy now, because they ended up being roommates in college even though they hadn’t really known each other before. They happened to become roommates because the originally-planned roommate died.
“Everything happens for a reason,” he said, pleased as punch about his great friendship.
That offended me really deeply. What? Was he really saying that someone died (actually two people, though only one ended up opening the roommate spot) so that he could end up being friends with this guy?
Gah.
It’s a gloomy day and this is grumping me out. I’m glad I have a fun weekend planned.
I know the sign of which you speak. I’ve always wanted to put up my own sign just a bit down the road, Burma-Shave style, reading “That’s Not What She Said To Me”
It seems you are ignoring the real meaning of the billboard and taking advantage of its brevity. It is obviously referring to the issue of abortion, not just life and death in general. Of course God creates death. He just doesn’t want us doing it ourselves.
My personal belief system is irrelevant here, I’m just talking don’t deliberately misinterpret then make fun of the misinterpretation. 🙂
“It seems you are ignoring the real meaning of the billboard and taking advantage of its brevity.”
BS. The main issue here really seems to be that we’re all supposed to know right away that, “Of course they’re really talking about abortion here,” like God stops caring about life and death after a baby’s born? That’s SO like him! Look, either God is pro-life or he isn’t. *All* life. But he’s also pro-death, if for no other reason than he’s ultimately indifferent to the suffering of an individual human being, in the grand scheme of things. I mean, he’s probably even more pro-death than he is pro-life, since all the good stuff supposedly happens once we hit Heaven anyway, right? What a hoot.
First, thanks for not posting anonymously, Melissa. I respect people who don’t have to hide when posting contrasting opinions.
I’m aware of the subtext of the sign; believe it or not, I can see both sides of the abortion issue. It’s a really complicated one, and there are smart, reasonable people who have wildly different views on it. I just think the sign is a reductive, facile, and ultimately illogical comment on the issue.
I totally hear you, sister. This brings back memories of Kathy Griffin accepting her Emmy last year with the words “A lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this. I can tell you, he had nothing to do with this.” I loved that. LOL. When people thank God for an award, God must really hate all of the other people up for it.
It is so easy for people to say that prayer is the answer to all of your problems and then if it doesn’t work, they say it was “God’s will” and he must have had “other plans”. They win either way. As I see it, prayer has a 50% chance of working. I’ll stick with my non-prayer odds (50%).
Brook forwarded a link to your blog. I completely agree. I have always thought how silly it was that the pro-lifers seem to ignore the fact that if a God exists, she created both life and death, as well as cruelty and horrible things. I think that psychologically positive thinking and belief in hopeful things is helpful to us psychologically, but may be more a comfort and maybe increase healing the same as the placebo effect.
However, I like the point about people who don’t get better, etc., not being to blame for not thinking positively enough is important. There are so many factors that contribute to any illness or problem, most of which are out of our control.
Although still small at only 9 posts, this is just about the most rational, educated debate on the subject of religion I have ever heard. I have long harbored similar views (though I can’t claim to have ever expressed them quite so eloquently). Sadly, I am not closely acquainted with any other like-minded people. Everyone I know has some shade of zeal toward one end of the debate or the other. I greatly respect people who can put aside their own beliefs and at least consider alternate viewpoints.
I also have to second a great deal of respect for Melissa. Although the clearly disagrees with the majority of this small group, at least she has the courage to identify herself when she makes her thoughts known.
As for the Burma-Shave idea, why not a whole series of signs? (Except for the obvious issue of cost.)
For the record, I pretty much agree with a lot of the discussion as well. While I believe God hates evil works, I still believe he creates our ability to do them and gives us free will. Death is a part of life, but accepting that does not mean God doesn’t care when we cause it through acts of violence or abuse (or through abortion, though I’m trying to focus on other examples because my intent really wasn’t to jump on sides of that debate). I was poking fun at the billboard sidebar of your original post, Aprille, but I’ve posed the same points to members of my faith community regarding thanking God for successes.
Thanks for the respect, yo! 🙂
Actually, from a Christian point of view, God is not pro-death. He actually never meant for us to die. It is through sin that we die. From a Christian point of view we were meant to live forever to be a companion for God.
So, does that apply to all living things or just to humans? Or to some living things but not others? Is that to say that, were it not for sin, we could be attacked by wild animals or leap off tall cliffs and be perfectly safe?
Your argument makes less than no sense. If no one ever died do you have even the slightest clue how many people there would be on the earth right now? The land area would be incapable if supporting us all. And I mean just providing a place to stand, nevermind food, shelter and all the other necessities of life. And yet because “we were meant to live forever” there wouldn’t be a thing we could do about it. We’d all be doomed to simply live endlessly on a planet that couldn’t support us.
Please, I respect people’s right to have a little faith but rub a couple of brain cells together before you express an opinion.
Wow, Jeff, that was more than a little harsh. You don’t really need to be insulting. You obviously don’t really respect the right for people to have faith.
However, for the record it is due to sin that that the world isn’t inhabitable in many places (if you think about how much of the earth people currently can not live on) and it is due to sin that the earth does not create enough food for us. It is also because of sin that wild animals wish to attack us.
It is ok that you don’t understand, want to understand or care about the Christian point of view. But it seems rather disrespectful to talk about a Christian God as someone who is pro-death, when in fact he is not, according to the people who chose to worship him. I mean, it’s fine that you don’t agree or think it’s not far fetched, but if it isn’t the religion you wish to connect with so what difference does it make to you.
I just don’t understand people who try to debunk Christians and their beliefs when they don’t really know or understand the Christian point of view.
It is because of sin that wild animals wish to attack us? Are you serious? If a coyote attacks a chicken, is it because the chicken was a sinner? If the coyote attacked an infant, would it be because that infant sinned?
See, Jeff, that just proves you don’t know what sin is. You are assuming sin is when someone does something wrong. That is not really the whole story. Without sin predators would eat prey but humans would not be prey.
Again, why on earth do you care. Choose not to agree, but why try to debunk someone’s faith. I just really don’t understand.
I think this has totally gotten off the original topic, which is that Elizabeth Edwards is a wonderful human being. I will try to tastefully steer it back toward that and leave the rest alone.
I concur, Elizabeth Edwards is a wonderful person.